Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: andyro
Age: 37

If the internship process was as well designed and accessible as this website, I would be a registered practitioner already. Please consider an online completion process wherever possible. Excellent survey design by the way.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Alex
Age: 32

Let's stop whining about the cost and time. The real reasons why interns are not becoming architects have more to do with the fact that there is little perceived value in holding a license - particularly where interns are employed by larger firms - and in the fragmentation of the architect's traditional responsibilities among specialist consultants. The OAA should not lower its standards - it should instead focus on the big picture.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: John-Barry Livi
Age: 51

Having worked in South Africa as an architect for 22 years, I've become very frustrated and disappointed with the OAA's internship process. Rather than "jump through the OAA hoops" with (repetitive) re-qualifications, I have chosen to leave the profession of architecture altogether. In order to pursue my other professional qualification as an urban designer & city planner. What was once a wonderfully-creative and expressive profession? Has very much DEE-volved to a "business service", particularly with the onerous liablity/insurance/indemnity constraints. I work alongside many interns and younger architects, who echo this frustration with astute dismay and shoulder-shrugging resignation. Over a coffee shop table this afternoon, five of them concur with my above views. Yet poignantly, three are "hanging in there", until better NON-architectural opportunities come their way. How very sad; three principled & skilled intern-architects, with degrees from Harvard, UBC and McGill. How long until the OAA awakens to the PERCEIVED reality? That registration as an intern-architect, and the practice thereof, has disillusioned so many of the younger generation?

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: akramer
Age: 30

I would like to feel that the OAA is a professional assocation that supports and aids my development as an architect, rather than making it more difficult.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Charlie
Age: 48

A good forum. I suggest you solicit input from all 8700 architects in Canada to get the real cross section.offer e a free OAA pin or something as am incemntive or a free CONED course on lne or or something to get people to fill out the survey.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Randy
Age: 57

As usual the OAA is reactive rather than proactive. This problem is just as likely to be symptomatic of the state of health of the profession. Architecture as a key element of Canadian society has been diminishing from the negligible of 30 years ago to the realm of discretional expenditure of today. How many of the 2600 licensed architects make a viable living from the practice of architecture? How much do Canadians rely on architects to be leaders or innovators and protectors of their built environment? The truthful answers: too few and not much. Sour grapes you say? Maybe, but that's the message I often get from coleagues. Who's to say that interns don't get it as well. I suspect the passion that drives one to study architecture in the first place diminishes significantly upon graduation and entry into the real-world profession, costs and time committment aside.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Heman Shih
Age: 42

I hope we could balance the need to expedite internship becomng architects with the need of quality control. I think B.C.'s inclusion of an interview as part of the licence process should be a good model. It's a good check system. The standard of licensing is not high to start with. There are more road blocks to internationally trained professionals.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Justin Perdue
Age: 26

I am 4 months away from completing my Masters, and with the IA program as it is, I am seriously considering either leaving the country and getting certified somewhere else, or abandoning the field altogether. I have 7 years of post-secondary architecture-specific education, 3 years of work experience both in Canada and abroad, and now I am supposed to BEGIN the IA process? That is simply ridiculous. What makes it worse is that firms are starving for young designers, but the process of becoming an architect is so onerous (and unrewarding, not only from a financial perspective) that people like myself choose to leave and pursue our careers elsewhere. I am heartened that this discussion is even happening, but we must make sure that we follow through and effect real changes to the system.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: david peterson
Age: 36

Nice to finally see an intiative that supports and listens to interns. The proffesion will be better for it.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: jtrop
Age: 35

Employers have to take greater responsibility in providing support for their interns. Allowing them time to study, and paying for exams. This makes the process easier to get through. Architectrual education is far more difficult then filling out a log book and writing 9 poorly written, but not extremely difficult exams. All interns have written and passed harder examinations in their life. Keeping the exams open for writing upon registration as an intern, also allows an intern to write exams when they are still in study mode. My hardest obstacle in writing the AREs was getting back into how to study, how to have the discipline to study, and how to find the time. Take two of those away and it would have been much easier.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: POSU
Age: 28

Generally I find that the people around me who are in the architectural field are pursuing licensure because of the idea that becoming an architect; the idea that seems more important than the journey. I see the journey as part of the learning curve. Without such a curve there would be a gap in the empirical knowledge. Currently all the knowledge that is being processed (for the ARE) is already just being memorized and forgotten as the exam requiremnts (time, quantity, costs...etc) increase. To focus on interns is to re-energize the notion that to be an architect is to be a part of a society that nutures its young talent while at the same time seeks to drop the veil on the all boys club and treat all members (regardless of education, experience, age, color, and style)with respect and value them, not as a means to generating income, but as people who can contribute to the discourse.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Hazim
Age: 51

Thank you very much for taking this positive step towards the Interns. It is both creative and responsible. As you are willing to solve problms for all Interns, I wish you take measures as regards to completing forms for overseas experience. As many parts of my experience has been many years ago, it is very difficult to trace colleagues and employers to sign and comment on the forms on projcts after 15 to 20 years. Many firms may have ceased to exist or were restructured. Also, there are countries, where drastic changes to the system have occurred or suffrd from wars. You may develop some supplementary yardsticks to verify the scope of work. These may include: Evidence of contracts with or assignments to the previous firms. Interview of the Intern by the OAA to verify documents and design work submitted. Considrations of related evidence (Newspapers, publications and so on) Any other test on the work submitted. Thank you

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: david
Age: 50

thank you to the committee for their hard work in this regard--it's a long standing problem.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: lend
Age: 35

The forum is great in that it allows us to see how others view the internship process. However, while completing the survey, I couldn't help but notice the underlying message. The OAA wants interns to quickly become full members. Does a quick internship process produce better a architect? Who does the quick internship process benefit? -The intern? who can now call themself an architect (with wages unchanged), how about -The health, safety and welfare of the public? is an intern who completes the internship process quickly better suited to protect the public? -How about the OAA? a full member pays more than an intern. Could this be the underlying reason to get interns to become members quicker?

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Rem Koolhaas
Age: 30

It is critical that interns understand what is NOT discussed in this survey and the larger discussion of EXac. Much of the provincial association's membership is approaching retirement and the associations need to renew their membership with younger architects to ensure their financial viability. These are the current costs of membership with the OAA: Intern Architect's OAA Annual Fee: Approximately $150 Professional Architect's OAA Annual Fee: Approximately $800, which is 5 times what an intern pays. If the OAA were to licence half of all interns in the next 5 years, that would mean an annual increase in membership fees of half a million dollars for the OAA. This is one of the key reasons that the OAA is asking for input from a group of individuals, who by the OAA membership standards, have no rights and representation within the association.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Ian Panabaker
Age: 41

The proposals in this survey highlight the need for the OAA to take a hard look at what membership actually means. The reason the OAA is becoming increasingly irrelevant is its narrow definition of Architect. The big picture here is developing an effective, engaged membership and a broad advocacy for architecture. Some of the members will practice with a certificate others, possible a large number, won't. This question has to be solved first before redesigning the Internship process.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: patrick trottie
Age: 43

Thank you to the Intern Architect Initiative for this process and for making it a soon to be reality. It's a long time coming. I liked what I've read.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: evanrutten
Age: 33

Great job.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: tesark
Age: 34

Intern Architect Initiative - FINALLY!!!! Survey/website - would be good if respondents and/or viewers (?) could recommend comments they particularly agree with, similar to the cbc - example: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2008/03/17/election-toronto.html

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: AnArchitect
Age: 35

General comment about the Architectural profession and the intern situation: We may already have too many Architects, and apparently we have too many interns. The first place to start addressing this situation is to reduce the number of architectural graduates, which either means reducing the number of graduates from each school of architecture, or reducing the number of schools. Certainly we shouldn't be opening any more new schools of architecture. The main focus of the OAA and other provincial associations should be to protect and enhance the work and lives of the Architects we already have, rather than making it easier for more new Architects (whether Canadian or international) to get into the profession. Possibly we should even be making it harder for more new Architects to get into the profession. We need to do a lot of work on improving the working situation, professional satisfaction, and incomes of the currently registered Architects, and then only allowing enough new Architects into the profession to satisy the need for Architects and to replace those who decide to retire. Architects generally should be earning much better incomes than they are, and this problem is partly caused by the fact that we have too many Architects and too many interns trying to get into the profession. The supply of Architects, graduates and interns is much greater than the demand. If we were like the medical profession, where apparently there are too few doctors, we would be earning much better incomes. Priority number one should be to improve the work and lives of the currently registered Architects (whether they are 25 or 75 years of age), and priority number two should be to reduce the number of graduates and interns until we have only as many as we need. .

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Skerdi
Age: 36

Simplifying the licencing process is a great initiative.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: meredith
Age: 35

I've known that things are changing for intern process from some time and for that reason I am holding back until things are settled

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: mljanzen
Age: 33

The OAA's committment to Interns and the Future of the Profession ought to include ways of helping young upstarts get into the game. This includes advocating for competitions, financial incentives, or other creative means of bringing new talent forward.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Tommy
Age: 31

Many interns falls into one common conclusion. In all fairness, OAA has not done much to improve Architectural profession. Simply put. There is no development in new policy, no promotion, etc. What has OAA done for Interns and Architects to date? This new Intern Architect Initiative is merely to generate more inexperience Architects and push them out into the market to replace retiree. How is this going to remotely help on a long term basis? Does Ontario needs quantity and quality? Has OAA even questions why is there a steep declining number of Architects? From Interns' perspective, is there such a big different in the roles we performed in the office? Increase in salary/ wages? If not, why would interns accept the potential liability for nothing? Let's not formulate a solution to solve "something". Let's think about what is the real "issue/ problem".

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Manoj Atri
Age: 46

CACB doesn't have a proper format for licensing, so possible solutions are just a mere attempt to do something. Kindly streamline the process. Classes for courses, exams, continued education, experience, time frames etc. Let someone have a look at OREA (Ontario Real Estate Association) how they are creating real estate agents in thousands every year.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: nomada
Age: 37

Being an intern architect has given me a good understanding of the registration process. If the objective is to streamline this process, the ideas exposed in this initiative are rather aimed at relaxing the requirements at an enormous cost to the profession, the public safety and the reputation of architects.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: lkasawat
Age: 40

Of course this is just a start, but we as interns can influence change, for the better. There of course the bigger issue of professional fees that are high, and wages that are low, and need for reciprocity, but we need to start somewhere. It is not perfect, we still need to make exams computerized, taken at different times in the year, start straight away, but this is the beginning of a conversation.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: ginfaxi
Age: 32

It is very frustrating to be near completion of this onerous task and see it about to get so much easier. In my opinion, it is not generally in the service of the profession to do so, as this protects both our right to administer our own regulation and licensing and the public in general. While it makes good sense to streamline the unnecessary bureaucracies that cloud the route, it is important to maintain the high standard that is currently in place. The process is difficult, but not impossible, and I would describe the practice of architecture in the same way. I know that I will not be ready to be an independent professional upon the grant of my license, but am not sure that everyone else will show the same restraint. If the process is made too easy, we will see a further loss of status amongst architects, and an increase in disciplinary cases against members. I would however, like to see a significant improvement in the way that mentorship is treated by the profession. Learning within practices is often not optimal and can stagnate the growth of Interns if it is not addressed. No one wants to feel like just “the help”, especially if they are making progress towards the thankless task of attaining their license. In a knowledge-based profession, learning is part of, and necessary for both excellence and fulfillment.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: xwang
Age: 22

I believe that many of the time constraints proposed seem unrealistic considering the type of work involved in Architecture offices. Span of projects can range from a few months in small offices to a few years in large offices, so proposing that one must have 2 projects, but must finish the licensing process in 5 years seem highly unrealistic. I think the OAA should actually stop thinking so theoretically about these things and think about how realistic some of these suggestions are. Some of the suggestions look good on paper, but I highly doubt they will work. They also may see a greater decrease in Archicts and Interns, especially if the 5 year limit and no reapplication is implemented. Architecture is considered a professional program, but it is something that requires time to learn from someone older. No student can come out of university and say I know how to make a building, and so one must consider this in thinking about time frames.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Jacqueline
Age: 49

In my view, the problem of getting interns to become architects is not an issue of making it easier to become an architect, but of making OAA membership itself more inviting. Many people decide not be become registered architects because they work for other architects and see no benefit to paying annual fees and participating in the flawed Con Ed program. We should be inviting interns to join by pointing our the benefits enjoyed by members. (What are they?)

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Hector Romero
Age: 52

The process had been painful and we as individuals that had showed experience with work, should have another chance to be licensed, or at least been more open to see what we have done or what I have done as an Intern Architect to complete our experience hours, because having my license, I can give to my company more development possibilities in other fields.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: jaro
Age: 80

Some provision should be made to permit Community College graduates to gain licensure in less than 20 years through comprehensive experience as well as few exams. Consideration should also be given to permit Civil / Structural Engineers into the profession thru appropriate experience

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Issam A Shukor
Age: 47

This initiative should also focus on the quality of architecture. Innovation and creativity should be taken into account for the betterment of architecture in Canada.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Sander Waxman
Age: 29

thank you for taking the time to make this survey.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: Yess
Age: 35

Reduce cost of foreign credentail assessment by CACB or find alternative ways.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: hhawa
Age: 49

I think that becoming an Intern Architect has no significant experience accomplishment. Canada is a country that depends on immigration and we cannot apply the same procedures to qualify internationally practiced architects as applied in the US or other countries. We should have a decent system to qualify those personnel and make use of their qualifications. I suggest that OAA should keep an updated percentages of the architects immigrants working in the architectural business out of the total number of architects immigrants.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: S. DeMatos
Age: 29

I think that this intitiative is good for all the talented people who need a canvas to release their creativity. If it is too difficult to become a licensed practioner, Ontario may be missing out on some great potential!

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: Ted DuArte
Age: 36

I am a Ryerson Graduate, with an Architectural Degree that is not recognized as a professional degree. I have over 12 years experience, working in an architect's office, conducting duties that range broadly in this industry, with significant involvement in multi-$BILLION dollar projects. The RAIC Syllabus program (which I am enrolled in), is a painfull and extremely long process for someone like me, who is a full-time employee). The other option would be to put my career on hold and go back to school for 2 years, for a Master in Architectur at a Canadian or American school. Unlikely, if you're married, with kids and full-time employed... The whole process is way too lengthy, with too many requirements. With all the years of schooling and professional experience under my belt, I could have been a doctor by now. That's frustration talking...

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: toni2
Age: 29

I hope that any changes to the licensing process will be integrated with great consideration to current Interns who may be mid-stream. I appreciate the opportunity to comment and think the options available were fair and progressive for the most part.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: Reza Aliabadi
Age: 34

It is more than good to revisit the Intern Program, I really appreciate that. I just want to add the fact that, there should be some exceptions for people with different backgrounds and educations, say; A registered architect from another country with 10+ years of experience in running a practice and having a portfolio including more than 20 constructed projects, still need to fill all the hours and process, (there is no difference between him/her and a junior graduate)? Capable architects(registered outside of Canada), might have a shorter hours or a different exams. OAA may have a closer relation with other associations internationally. Similar to the concept of how universities respect/accept and evaluate their scholars and fellows internationally, there might be a sort of agreements between OAA and other associations. Considering the fact that with this much mobilization in our world, architects should spend their life in order to get registered in any country they may settle for a couple of years. It is not only the matter of time or money and the like, but also it represents, we Canadian as one of the most diverse society in the world how respect the architecture profession and people who are involve in it in a wider agenda and international scale. Regards,

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: erin
Age: 26

I wish to become and architect, I really do. I am just finishing my studies at a Canadian university, but the current system has me looking internationally for a country that will value my experience (over 2 1/2 years of work experience) and education (6 years of school, two architecture degrees) to let me practice architecture. The Canadian process is too long, too expensive, and currently too daunting to any graduate, and the more I learn of all the fees I will have to pay, and the extra time it will take, the more I consider moving outside of the country to practice. My sentiments are heard in my graduating classmates, some of whom are considering other design careers, some who never intend to register (forever interns), and others who are also considering moving out of the country. Something is drastically wrong with a system that encourages it's own students to look elsewhere for careers.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: Shashank
Age: 41

This opinion is based on my being an Internationally Ttrained Professional. To become an architect is a choice made by an individual. Given a chance, to practice or not to practice is also a choice. All the information regarding the fees, time frame and procedures has been available on the OAA website which is accessible in all the countries. Architectural graduates who are serious about their profession and migrating here shoud be aware of all this atleast two years before landing in Canada.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: Jody Patterson
Age: 28

The IAP as it currently operates discourages students from pursuing registration, especially if they are working in offices that cannot provide the scope of hours per category of experience which the OAA requires (this includes most sole practitioners and small offices, as well as 'alternative' practices to the standard architecture firm). Many would-be interns are either limited in employment choices or discouraged from registering by the inflexibility of the OAA's current IAP requirements - neither of which is beneficial to the individual, or the profession.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: Alex
Age: 28

Thanks for doing this. Great Job.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: hayoung
Age: 24

The previous benefits of being a licensed architect (design control, pay, etc.) have, very clearly, been rapidly decreasing, yet the requirements for getting licensed seem to be getting more stringent than ever (ie. B.Arch. programs being phased out, forcing a student to complete an M.Arch. in order to have a certified degree, on top of the extensive licensing requirements that follow). This seems very counter-intuitive, and is likely to result in a shortage of architects and an increase in construction/engineering-based 'project managers' in the coming generations.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: mnsa
Age: 39

The topic of intern architects and licensure in Ontario is one that I have become very interested in over the last several years having graduated from university (note previous college diploma also), struggled through the exams, and worked my way up in our firm. I have witnessed collegues that have also become licensed but clearly do not have the skills nor experience to go into practice. I am very concerned about the the future of our profession and the current trend to reduce the requirements for obtaining a license. The people coming out of our accredited universities do not have the necessary skills, which by the way are constantly changing (i.e. our ongoing continuing education requirements). Reducing the required years of experience will only have a negative impact on the profession and damage our image to the public. I would be more than willing to volunteer on any committees looking into this matter.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: Shawn
Age: 36

In general, I am glad the OAA has decided to review the Intern program. As an intern (for the last 9 years) with only 1 ARE exam under my belt I will admit that the sheer number of exams and the costs involved are daunting. Not to mention that past OAA surveys have revealed that being licensed does not necessarily guarantee a better wage and once you add in ConEd points and increased liabilities, there isn't really much of an incentive. Truly, I think the larger issue is the disconnect between schools and practice. I think every school of architecture should have a co-op program and should focus on preparing students for the real world requirements. It shouldn't be the case that graduates are close to useless upon entering their first jobs. This could also help with raising the beginning wage of recent grads, which if memory serves is quite embarassing compared to other professions (eg. nurses, teachers).

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: mross
Age: 32

As a student, I am very happy to contribute to this process and am pleased that it is happening. Thank you!

Date:  Mar 20, 2008
User: Nikki
Age: 47

The OAA, representing the profession, has a responsibility to attract members. If you are not attracting interns, the OAA must accept responsibility as being part of the problem. Putting further restrictions on interns is not a solution.

Date:  Mar 20, 2008
User: intern4ever
Age: 40

I'm thankful the survey of 2-3 years ago was listened to, and if this leads to an experience based testing format-such as ExAC, then this is a positive move. The ARE makes me sick.

Date:  Mar 20, 2008
User: Acer
Age: 45

I think that you should mail (or email) a copy of the report to all OAA interns as soon as it is completed, i.e. before the AGM on April 30th so that interns have a chance to lobby members for changes/support for the report's recommendations.

Date:  Mar 21, 2008
User: int_traind
Age: 57

this survay does not address internationaly trianed architects many of which have over 20 years experiance and more who OAA wish to deal with in the same maner as a fresh graduate from university or fresh intern.

Date:  Mar 23, 2008
User: s z
Age: 35

It seem that we are missing the forest for the trees. I believe that the reasons for such long internships, or possibly for interns choosing not to become licensed are because of the OAA's requirements and polices once licensed, which are onerous, expensive, and may not equate to any particular benefit to the intern asides from being able to call themselves and architect. Perhaps if these issues were addressed, more interns would put an effort in to complete the requirement's sooner and take their license and possible a Certificate of Practice. A recent example, which is akin to rubbing salt in the wound, for example, is the fact that technologist are now being given an opportunity to sign up with the OAA, complete some minimal requirements for a license to do work under a certain size?! How does this help architects? Why is this same offer not being made available to interns, perhaps as a interim step to a full license? Surely a graduate from any of our universities, having worked in an office for a few years and taken the admission course, or what have you is just as capable of designing houses as a technologist.

Date:  Mar 24, 2008
User: filippo
Age: 43

I applaud the OAA in their efforts to steamline the Intern Architect Process. Up until recently, a College Architectural Technology(ist) graduate could advertise their services as 'Architectural...' however a University School of Architecture graduate couldn't. After 5+ years of University, what did this say about our time spent at University? Let's also consider other respected Professions in our Province, Teachers, Nurses etc.. I believe a member in either 'College' is automatically certified after graduation and is guaranteed a respectable salary once employed. Isn't this also what an Assocation is all about?

Date:  Mar 27, 2008
User: Robert
Age: 42

Why does every profession, except architecture, have both a promotional body and a separate disciplinary body?

Date:  Mar 28, 2008
User: Name with held
Age: 30

I appreciate the interest in improving the system, or at a minimum, that there are some architects who have a view of things beyond self interest (read their own income). However, the questions in this survey leave me with a very troubled sense that A.) the details or wider implications of the changes are nowhere near being thoroughly thought through, B.) there is the intention to do the right thing and be 'nice' without the commensurate resolve to role up one's sleeves and get one's hands dirty, make tough decisions and ENFORCE them when necessary. And by this I mean very explicitly, dealing with the firms. They are part of the problem, they must be part of the solution. It's like saying, "let's make the Drive Clean Program more effective and take away the driver's car or jail them if they fail the emissions test." Yes 'Joe-average-guy' driving his car is part of the problem but only a part. So are the automakers. The government must also deal with them. If you don't recognize the parallel in this analogy and deal with the firms then at best this initiative will be a partial improvement and at worst make a broken system more complicated and further entrenched. My comments are strong, even harsh. But they are valid. HEED THEM.

Date:  Mar 28, 2008
User: jmcginn24
Age: 28

It is nice to see some type of initiative to improve the intern process

Date:  Mar 28, 2008
User: slk123
Age: 30

Having completed half of my internship hours, I realize that I will not gain all of the experience required to run a practice after logging all of my hours at the end of the 3 years required experience. However, I also know that even after 5 years, or 10 years I will not know everything that I need to know to run a practice. I doubt even that the architects that have been doing this for 20+ years are completely comfortable with their knowledge base. Architecture is an ever evolving profession that is constantly in flux; the sooner we join the professional world the sooner we are able to adapt to becoming successful and responsible architects. The fact that the average age of an intern is 39 is shocking. By 39 I would hope to be well on my way to becoming an established architect. What is the average length of an internship? 10 years? I agree, with many of the comments posted here. It seems that professional organizations are set on punishing would-be architects. One only has to look to European models for a clear contrast to our system here in North America. In some European countries licensure is not even mandatory, yet these are the countries that are producing some of the best work in the world. A great resource to compare and contrast the profession with the European model is: http://www.wonderland.cx/magazine_01.html This is a free online magazine that covers many professional issues in Europe. Why are we not so progressive and committed to supporting our young professionals?

Date:  Mar 28, 2008
User: Lesley
Age: 53

Yes, let's look at how this can work. I think it should be more like the medical and accounting professions, where you're not left with so many who are not registered, but make up much of the working profession! We didn't go into this to be not Architects.

Date:  Mar 28, 2008
User: erin
Age: 25

I am generally frustrated by how little I learned about the whole internship process in school (though this may be a reflection of a particular school). Although it does say something about the diligence of the individual to find out all the required processes...it can be frustrating still when there are for example multiple exams to think about, and lots of paperwork between the a bunch of different groups. I went through the process before many of my classmates and received many questions from them on how I did everything from getting my intern status, to submitting CERB forms, to getting what forms to who, to finding a mentor, and sorting out the rules of when tests can be written. I do feel a sense of accomplishment when I submit my hours but the whole thing could just be smoother.

Date:  Mar 29, 2008
User: ar-cad
Age: 40

its very difficult 4 the new immigrants to pay huge fees as they r already supporting families n stuff. try to lower the feeses as much as possible or it should be paid by the company they r working 4.

Date:  Mar 29, 2008
User: mustafa
Age: 35

i dont like the way is set up for interns and we do come from international countries but we are talented so that is why we are working in architectural firms and runnning cnadian industry and we are not treated well lots of our canadian leave hope and get frustrated the system is really bad and unreasonable tuff and i dont think so there is no point for this all

Date:  Apr 01, 2008
User: erin
Age: 24

the most important issue to me is reducing the requirement of experience in 3 different building types. this may often require the intern to change jobs, which can be disruptive to his or her carrer. mentorship also sounds nice but is an absolutely unnecessary hassle to all parties.

Date:  Apr 01, 2008
User: ddrussell
Age: 35

The basic concern for interns across the country is support for licencing and exposure. The profession has to stay focused if Canada wants to promote change. If Canada wants to be a leader - then lead! We lead by bringing forth new/ fresh thinking forward ideas that help to further our education such as the ExAC and not involve ourselves with conkforming issues especially if these are admimnstered by another country such as the US - shame on the CACB and the provincial associations for accepting the conformity of other visisons within our own country - this is how one looses sovereignty.

Date:  Apr 01, 2008
User: Meshah
Age: 39

This action was long overdue. Thanks God for taking the initiative to improve the process. I have one special request, please ensure that all future OAA and IAP courses and study materials are available online, lets move this association into 21st century and onwards. Have the alternative option of these courses to be taken online and study guide to be accessed on-line.

Date:  Apr 01, 2008
User: jayleb
Age: 27

It is very refreshing as a recent grad of a Canadian professional program that the long and frustrating process we all feared and critisized in school is finally being addressed. Not only is the process too long for someone who just completed 8+ yrs of post-secondary education and may have already been working for several years in the field (remember many of you only needed one degree to be professionally recognized previously), it is unfair to expect us to be paid as "marginal" members of the profession for such prolonged periods of time (the 3 years of experience often means at least 5 just to fill all the required experience categories). Let us turn around "the profession that eats its young!"

Date:  Apr 01, 2008
User: Joyce
Age: 26

I think above all other hindering factors to achiveing lisensure, exams should be looked at very carefully. Interns are working and gaining experience either way, so recording is not that difficult. Exams should be written to test an architect to be an architect and not an engineer, and should truly be simplified. Maybe even down to one exam, as the engineers write one exam, and they probably cover all the essentials in that one exam. And if they don't, it's obviously not critical that they do because you never stop learning in practice and 6 years of architecture education should not be reduced to a mere starting point that barely scratches the surface. If architecture students were really aware of essentially what is more or less a ten year process, they would be so discouraged as to not only remain a lifelong intern but would avoid that all together and simply not choose architecture.

Date:  Apr 01, 2008
User: Raje
Age: 46

Just the cut the amount, reduce the time and make things simpler. Try to get advantage of foreign trained skilled architects to build a great nation called Canada. We are lucky to get the exposure of so many cultures and their architecture. Dont just try to get draftsman but also some good Architects. Time to rise and think. Scrap the crap!

Date:  Apr 01, 2008
User: derricklai
Age: 25

I am very glad that this survey is taking place. I hope that the process of acting upon the tabulation is prompt.

Date:  Apr 02, 2008
User: Denise Lepage
Age: 49

Glad you are doing this but you have not addressed my pet peeve. The use of the word Architect. Like Doctors, all interns should be able to call themselves Architects out of school. Make the restrictions related to licensure and certificate of practice to ensure public protection not the use of the word "architect". My husband the software engineer can call himself a sytems architect and I can't.

Date:  Apr 02, 2008
User: Masato
Age: 35

What is the benefit of getting the license? The employers hardly pay the amount to maintain the license points. If you want to have a small practice the cost is so high that it makes it almost impossible to even think about it.

Date:  Apr 02, 2008
User: Jason
Age: 34

These questions were self-serving, and completely useless for interns to provide useful input on the process for becoming licensed.

Date:  Apr 04, 2008
User: Tracy
Age: 28

Purchasing the CHOP should not be mandatory. 1 per office should be enough. (i.e. I work at an office of two architects and one intern, 3 CHOP floating around, a waste of paper - we really only need one) the cost should be much lower.

Date:  Apr 04, 2008
User: Michaela
Age: 39

I can't begin to tell you how frustrating and ridiculous the process has been - I have just finished all of my exams over the past 5 years - 39 years old and hoping to get my hours logged in the next year before I turn 40 and throw my towel in. I have a degree in architecture and engineering - I think I failed 3 exams - never failed anything in my life.

Date:  Apr 05, 2008
User: 1hk1
Age: 37

Please look into why there are so many interns within the OAA. How many are overseas? How can the overseas interns easily become OAA members? Why are intern treated like second class citizens and not given automatic login to the OAA site? I requested a login and was ignored.

Date:  Apr 07, 2008
User: Robertoz1
Age: 39

I have not worked in the profession over the past year because the registering process seemed unnecessarily burdensome. And the compensation seemed out of touch with the expense of the cost of attaining an M.Arch degree. I was really frustrated with the prospects of spending years more studying and paying to be recognized as an architect; if this was needed why not incorporate in the school curriculum. The goal should be to create a new generation of architects, not keep them in a state of limbo. I respect the internship process. But there should be a clear road to licensure with a reasonable amount of commitment from the intern.

Date:  Apr 08, 2008
User: Purav
Age: 39

As there is a requirement of submitting academic work I do not have anything now as after 13 years of my graduation. And I do not have complete curreculum of my university (13 years old curriculum). In that case only my transscript should do for applying for CACB.

Date:  Apr 08, 2008
User: Chintan Virani
Age: 46

I thank you for the opportunity you provided express myself; people think and move that is the sign of life; The future of profession is bright. Thanks and best regards to all at OAA.

Date:  Apr 09, 2008
User: gejb
Age: 39

I believe that interns are discouraged in investing further into the profession because of liability and demands for liscensure (obligations and monetary costs). The return on that investment has proven to be minimal and at times catastrophic for some of my colleagues, struggling to afford time and money for con-ed, etc. Where schools have restructured their programs to make them more relevant, the same should be done at the Professional / OAA level; only then would membership become more attractive. Where obtaining registration for an intern was once a milestone -to complete the learning process and inflate an ego with a 'title', -today's motivation remains simply for the romantic pursuit of building spaces. We need to come out of the dark ages!

Date:  Apr 09, 2008
User: wing nut
Age: 39

On the whole I think the intern process is prohibitively complex and time consuming. In general terms I agree that we need to uphold professional standards othrwise life turns into a gong show with everyone trying to say they are "Architects". That having been said as interns we all have demonstrated a lot of committment just by getting through school, many of us sold our souls to do that part. By continuing to add requirements to the process we reinforce the class structure of the profession to the fiscal detriment of interns and un-liscenced and to the benefit of the priveleged few whom have passed. Invariably those who have just started down the path will say its too long and unfair. Those who have been liscensed for years will invariably say, "Get over it, I had to walk uphill both ways to school and now you can too" As such streamlining of the process is ultimately beneficial to the profession particularly where the work place is in an accelerating mode of transition as to how, what and where we work. The desire and work to streamline should be applauded. For individuals to move up the ladder one rung takes years of time effort and money. Perhaps some incremental steps to liscence would be beneficial to all. I personally think that Architects running large practices don't really have that much incentive to see interns change or elevate their professional status, it really just makes their staff more mobile in the work place market and means you would likely have to pay them more for no real incremental progress in productivity. One stamp can serve a practice with 50 employees and will serve to keep the profits concentrated in the hands of the partners, which is great for partners and sucks for interns. This is how life works right now and will stay that way for the forseeable future. If we allow for more incremental liscensure we would probably see a more dynamic and rewarding profession as a result.

Date:  Apr 10, 2008
User: deanna
Age: 28

This is a great site and idea, keep up the work!

Date:  Apr 11, 2008
User: jcirka
Age: 52

I would like to see a survey of Interns, across the age spectrum, which asks the question: why have you not become licensed? Is the OAA willing to run this survey and publish the results?

Date:  Apr 11, 2008
User: jsbaker
Age: 35

I'm glad this initiative is underway; the Intern process as it stands now is horribly broken.

Date:  Apr 11, 2008
User: rhizome
Age: 44

Good to see an easy-to-use feedback process.

Date:  Apr 13, 2008
User: Koutsoulias
Age: 29

This forum and survey is a fantastic approach to democratically making decisions on such an important part of our profession.

Date:  Apr 13, 2008
User: parallax_ca
Age: 42

1. make this easier to use on dialup (the whole world is NOT on high speed) 2. carefully read what I place in every section I apologize for ranting, this is the first "real" forum I have had to even BEGIN to express my views I have HIGH hopes AND expectations of the profession and am frustrated by the "bureaucratic" stance we take as architects more worried about covering our butts than about improving the built (and unbuilt!) environment. Maybe I am still a pie-in-the-sky student attitude, but I went out on my own over 15 years ago and my only regret is not being able to get my stamp and yet my only "non-regret" is that if I had, I would be starving spending more time looking for high level clientele rather than being in the trenches with the average joe who would not necessarily consider an architect in the 1st place and yet here I am, able to provide the same service but unrecognized by my own profession, a non-entity that would sooner license a college graduate than a university one. again, sorry for ranting, wish I could participate on the forum but being on dialup in the boonies makes it difficult. well, change it without considering these things and you will lose many who could have been "saved" and the profession will become more insular, removed from helping everyone and instead help an oligarchy monetarily based. we should have a profession that people WANT to use and can AFFORD to use no matter the scale of the project, a profession that allows various levels within itself instead of only ONE holy grail ah ranting again

Date:  Apr 14, 2008
User: toronto_intern
Age: 37

many of the proposals suggested limited time to fulfill the licenese requirements which will only make things harder to intern architects, instead of finding solutions to ease the process. i think the architectural license has a lot of improvements to learn from the P.eng license process which is equivalant licenes to engineers; however, it does not require all these complications in the intern architect program.

Date:  Apr 15, 2008
User: darchitect
Age: 37

I think that Interns spend too much of their time complaining about the process and not enough time doing something about it. The exams, the hours, the admissions course are all part of the process. If you want to be architect and take over one of those 85% of firms run by the 45-70 crowd, knuckle down, write the exams and get it over with. then sit back and wait for the collective sound of retirees begging for someone to take over their firm.

Date:  Apr 15, 2008
User: Nancy
Age: 28

One of the main points of this survey seems to be around limiting internship time to only 5 years. This would have a significant negative impact on women in the profession who choose to have children. A woman who completes a 4 year undergrad and 3.5 year masters graduates around 27 or 28. Many women in my class were closer to, or just over 30. Couple this with the fact that a lot of women also have children in their late 20s and early 30s and the five year limit could have a significant negative effect on the accessibility of the profession to women. Furthermore, this impact is not limited to women. Men would have to reconsider parental leave during their internship time. If we want architecture to be a profession that offers fulfilling professional and non-professional lives, we need to consider the impact that restricting the time of internship will have on those people who choose to have families.

Date:  Apr 15, 2008
User: TomK
Age: 32

I think many interns feel isolated in the process. More engagement with the association and their peers would help them finish quicker. The RIBA process is very structured and follows the model of learning and testing established in all architectural schools.

Date:  Apr 15, 2008
User: Moammer
Age: 37

I wish if there is a mandate that every intern, even ITP should be hired by architecural office even without pay, for the experience.

Date:  Apr 17, 2008
User: Paul
Age: 43

I am an intern with 20 years of incredible experience in the work place. I have done it, many times over. I own a significant portion of my firm as well and I manage 35 staff. I was an award winning architecture student. I understand that the OAA Council may waive requirements and grant a licence for Broadly-Experienced Professionals allowing people who do not have a degree in architecture and have not completed the syllabus program to become registered architects. If this is the case, I would suggest that people like myself who have a recognized architecture degree and this amount of field experience also be allowed to become registered without having to write exams. As another person has already said on this site "There should also be a way for those that do have architectural degrees but did not follow the intern process to become registered".

Date:  Apr 26, 2008
User: Chris
Age: 38

Pleased to see that this issue is being addressed.

Date:  Apr 26, 2008
User: senior
Age: 53

We are late to recognise internationlly trained professional to be part of main stream professional specially those who came in 90's or earlier & still fighting to be recognised they are working as self employed or under employed due to red tape although some have completed requiremant of ARE (NCARB) but lacks in experience in certain fields listed due to limitation imposed upon them . This recognition will help to creat reciprocity in profession from various countries & will result in narrowing the gap in profession in future. In fact Association should create forum to recognise credential of Institution worldwide .

Date:  Apr 28, 2008
User: rima
Age: 41

I acknowledge the OAA efforts to take on the intern problem. It is a courageous undertaking. However, making the process easier from administritive point of view should not be confused with lowering the standards of the profession. The registration and examination process should test qualifications, experience and professional acumin, and as it always meant to be, should turn away individuals who lack a serious committment and understanding of the previledge they are to be given. I ask the OAA council not to resort to desparate means, allowing less then hihgly qualified individuals into the profession, thus lowering our public persona at a time when our profession needs to cultivate more respect in the public eye which can only be achieved by raising the standards of the architectural practice.

Date:  May 02, 2008
User: nguyenMSA
Age: 27

The survey was sadly an "either / or" exercise with no real opportunities for user input. Including a simple question such as "How would you like to see the Intern program improve?" would have been useful. Or questions like, "What are your current frustrations with the OAA / Intern program?"

Date:  May 03, 2008
User: Dacad
Age: 58

Stand up and be counted. Spread the truth about canada and canadian architects around the world. Show the pictures, drawings, caracters. Can you imagine canada without USA feeding? Disaster. Cold war was justified in disciplining animals. Now we have 'democracies' at work. Money talks, who need universities, professions, real work. Entertainment, video games, pornography are things which sustain us. Architecture? Yeah that ugliness of Liebskind (who?) is your knowledge and succes.

Date:  May 23, 2008
User: eddyson
Age: 54

It is encouraging that this initiative is on the way. A light at the end of the tunnel at last. Let's hope it leads to something good.

Date:  Jul 02, 2008
User: Don Lee
Age: 45

I object all divisions of ExCA to be taken at once a year because it will absolutely be a huge barrier to the people who speak English as a second language. Think about 'Internationally-Trained Professionals (ITPs)'. They are usually being treated undervalued in their workplaces for communication skills are not good enough. They are striving to survive in the professional world with studying new language. Now, a kind of disaster is coming to them. It is almost despairing to the people like me to write all divisions of ExCA at one time in a year. I am deeply apprehending that the ExCA would eventually be only the exam to become a registered architect in Canada, even though ARE maybe available for a while. I know very well the exam system which is held only once a year because I used it in my previous country. Therefore, I am sure to say it is all but impossible to the ITPs to pass the ExCA. The ExCA should be set in the standpoint of Interns, not for administrative convenience in the organization. It means that ExCA should be able to be taken in each division and at any time candidates want like ARE. I strongly recommend to OAA and the ExCA committee members to reconsider to make the ExCA system for timing to offer, and also ITPs committee should very seriously stare what this matter goes. Canada is a multi-culturalism country which is trying to give people opportunities to take an exam for even driving test as their mother languages. Even if ExCA system does not offer each language in the world, it should not restrict more tightly. Regards,

Date:  Oct 06, 2008
User: joelb
Age: 34

Good for the OAA to focus on this. Having just gone through the entire process, I can tell you it definitely needs improving, especially in the area of the examination content and courses. I'm not going to work in the US and therefore, have no use for American content in the exams. Architectural schools should be the forum for much of the content tested on.

Date:  Jan 08, 2009
User: pati
Age: 38

I am tired of refining other professionals' work. It is a chame how poor some full members' projects are. I am tired of correcting and refining stupid mistakes that OAA's members do.

Date:  Mar 22, 2009
User: jimes
Age: 32

I understand the OAA's problem, not enough interns are becoming licensed to replace the number of professional architects out there. However many of your solutions don't look at fixing or even addressing the problem of why not as many interns are progressing through the system as hoped. Firms need to take responsibility for this. Sometimes almost the exact opposite mentality is being taken - too many architects, not enough projects. Many of the solutions presented are quick-grab ones, as if you're trying to open the floodgates to the 'architect' title, but there's nothing to address maintaining a QUALITY of the profession.