Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: lismin
Age: 35

After all this we've been through to get this far, drop these other ridiculous requirements. The last organization I'd seek business training from is the OAA.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Charlie
Age: 48

Get rid of certificates of practice. License architects and monitor and police individuals not businesses.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: akramer
Age: 30

Making business training mandatory is unecessary-- it would not be relevant to everyone. For example, I could learn about running a business from the firm I work for, or hire someone to run the business, or perhaps run a very small business. Different practices will have different structures, HR, marketing, and accounting needs. Business training should be optional. That said, making online resources about business related requirements available to all interns would be great.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: louise
Age: 43

Many architects presently practicing are seriously lacking in business-based education that is not provided by the architectural univeristy degree: accounting, HR, marketing, ect are all very important in todayès high-stakes world.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: Donald
Age: 40

All arch. firms should be auditted for their treatment of interns and students. Slave labour should not be the grounds for obtaining experience.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: miug
Age: 55

It is the individual's responsibility to ensure that he/she has the approprate knowldedge and/or support to set up a practice.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: david
Age: 50

I strongly disagree. I encourage all methods to bring interns into the fold. However, allowing them to acquire a CofP almost immediately thereafter seems foolhardy. The required two years of experience is clearly not enough for plenty of current holders. The courses suggested should become mandatory for all CofP applicants period.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: smcc
Age: 33

Emmerging practices /sole proprietorships should not have to pay for Cof P

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: patrick trottie
Age: 43

Excellent option! Excellent support!

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: viktrix
Age: 34

This is a very good idea. Providing a generous time frame acknowledges that starting up your own practice is challenging enough without intense examination pressure. The con-ed approach is positive.

Date:  Mar 17, 2008
User: mazen
Age: 47

with all the OAA supervision and conEd system, an architect must take responsibility in doing business

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: tesark
Age: 34

Business education is important for any new business. The OAA should help fledgling practices to succeed. We're all in this together - competition amongst ourselves is one thing, and the image of the profession is another. The quality of the interaction between every client and practice reflects on the profession as a whole. Making it easier to start a practice discreetly hardly seems more important than making it easier to start a practice that will thrive. A program to provide income support while completing business studies, for those eligible for a CofP, might be helpful. A model for such a program exists. Individuals on EI may apply to receive income support for a year when starting a business, conditional on taking certain courses and preparing a solid business plan. Coaching is provided.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Joseph Galea
Age: 60

Although in principle completing business-based courses is a good idea for anyone setting up a new practice, I believe that this need not be a condition for a CoP. This smacks of paternalistic interference. The market will take care of those who do not obtain the necessary business skills.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Manoj Atri
Age: 46

Your complete format is missing. Each possible solution is not streamlined hence you don't have a proper solution in sight.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Helen Desjardin
Age: 49

Not all architects want to be business people. This is forcing a creative person to take on knowledge that may not be what he is interested in. These courses, albeit very useful, should be more optional.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Carole
Age: 36

Although well meaning, I don't think folks learn things they don't experience as valuable. Witness the earnest questions about the code at the entrance course: with some real experience, the learning was meaningful. The recent grad was conversely bored and not engaged; it was a meaningless hoop. I guess that's what the whole intern/apprentice experience is supposed to provide. Supplanting real life experience with more courses doesn't seem to be a good solution. If the concern is that people will be getting liscenced too early, then maybe the idea of making it so that everybody is younger isn't the solution. We've all already demonstrated that we are good students. This is not the only requirement for success in the world.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: nomada
Age: 37

Limit OAA's involvement to its area o expertise: architecture. It worries me they are already aknowleding we will have more licensed architects with "reduced exposure to non-professional & business related requirements".

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: lkasawat
Age: 40

However, we really should look at reducing membership fees, maybe that is why no-one wants to become an architect. Also raise our wages as architects.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: ginfaxi
Age: 32

If this is not treated with care we will lose our self-regulation

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Jacqueline
Age: 49

Courses cannot replace experience.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Len Abelman
Age: 37

There is huge responsibility and liability in running a practise. If one is not ready for it don't do it.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: Martin M. Poizn
Age: 73

Bordering on too much regulation, if you ask me.

Date:  Mar 18, 2008
User: dgignac
Age: 20

Architecture shouldn't be reduced to business if the architect doesn't so desire. If one wants to have that background, one can pursue it, but it shouldn't be necessary. If one is able to be an architect, one would likely have all of the abilities needed for running a practice, gained through experience in the field.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: intern007
Age: 51

one really needs to gain experience before breaking out on their own, so coed courses, seminars etc that can assit in the business side will be a benefit

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: Kori
Age: 38

Interns becoming licensed sooner also reduces their exposure to the professional requirements as well! Per comments above, for the possible solution to work, the programs need to be re-evaluated and modified at the University level to better supplement the goals of the licensing process.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: feedmyego
Age: 26

the courses should be optional.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: mnsa
Age: 39

The experience related to the practice of architecture is integral for those wishing to start their own practices in the future. If these individuals also wish to take course related to running a business, there are many opportunities to do this through continuing education courses offered at many colleges and universities ("night school"). In my opinion, reducing the time that it takes for one to become licensed and obtain a certificate of practice will mean less experienced professionals. This is sure to have a negative impact on the profession as a whole as these individuals are not equipped to the skills to deal with the public and uphold the high standards of our profession.

Date:  Mar 19, 2008
User: alejandro
Age: 24

I also think these courses should be optional.

Date:  Mar 20, 2008
User: OlaM
Age: 26

I guess i don't understand what this means... am i an 'architect' or not after i finish this licencing process?? these business courses are a good idea as part of continuing education credits but should not be confused with architectural practice.

Date:  Mar 20, 2008
User: Nikki
Age: 47

Enough of the 'additional requirements'! Business education, especially human resources and business structure should be part of the curriculum at schools and in ConEd. Business knowledge, communication skills, and human resources is the largest deficit in this profession.

Date:  Mar 20, 2008
User: Acer
Age: 45

This suggestion smacks of the Gestapo more than it does of a professional association! Does the OAA even have the legal right to impose this kind of restriction on entering the profession? If I take longer to complete the licensure requirements, then the public will benefit by my greater level of experience. Why do you want to puish people who had the great "misfortune" of having a life that "got in the way"??? What if I get sick? What if my father gets sick? What if there's a prolonged economic downturn? What if I take time off to have kids? What if I take my legal 1-year maternity leave? What if the project I'm working on lasts for 6 years and prevents me from fulfilling all the experience requirements? What if my house burned down? What if . . . ?

Date:  Mar 22, 2008
User: alan
Age: 34

I believe that the itern program should still have a business practice learning component. This is currently offered through the OAA Admission course and would not require further modification to the process of obtaining a Certificate of Practice.

Date:  Mar 23, 2008
User: s z
Age: 35

Perhaps, IF all of eth aove changes were made to essentially weaken the internship process. However, as it currently is set up, I believe interns who complete the process and decide to also begin their own practice are in fact well prepared to do so and ready to continue their commitment through license requirement's already in place, such as CON Ed, etc.

Date:  Mar 24, 2008
User: filippo
Age: 43

Con Ed is an excellent way to keep the Profession relavent and encourage dialogue between members. Maybe courses in Ethics etc. could be dealt with at the University level?

Date:  Mar 24, 2008
User: Ron Milne
Age: 74

I disagree. You either have the necessary education/knowledge/experience before embarking on a career, or you don't have it. I don't see the wisdom in granting a licence and then telling you to complete your training.

Date:  Mar 25, 2008
User: D. Cardinal
Age: 34

I don't find the existing system too onerous to get licensure OR that I will be overqualified by the time I do get licensure. Again, it seems that the Committee is prepared to risk lowering the quality of the profession, potentially increase OAA insurance fees (if early licensed architects make more mistakes) and muddy reciprocity. All for what gain?

Date:  Mar 25, 2008
User: gilbert
Age: 28

I do not agree with the other points and believe the the current system is better than the shortened proposed solutions.

Date:  Mar 27, 2008
User: alexis
Age: 40

This is a good idea. In fact, potentially have an architect wait one or two years after licence before granting a certificate of practice may also be a good idea. Especially if you fast track the licencing process. We need a full body of experience in this field!

Date:  Mar 28, 2008
User: slk123
Age: 30

dumb. just let us be architects already.

Date:  Mar 28, 2008
User: erin
Age: 25

a little confusing

Date:  Mar 30, 2008
User: jmac
Age: 38

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're employed presently and licensed, you're not able to have a CofP. So how does this work? Secondly, once again...if you're trying to tell me that someone with 2 years experience can have a practice...I'm pretty sure I foresee lawsuits. Never mind accounting and marketing and other business practices...how about the actual experience of getting a building built. Gen Y's can study really well...doesn't mean they know much.

Date:  Mar 31, 2008
User: holmwood
Age: 39

Not sure that all interns under the current system gain this experience anyway, so am not convinced of benefit. I think that at least 2 years of current experience is not a bad idea.

Date:  Apr 01, 2008
User: erin
Age: 24

these con-ed courses need not be required. business skills are required in any profession, they may be acquired by many means other than formal education. if the oaa does not insure against bankruptcy, they do not need to require members to take business courses

Date:  Apr 01, 2008
User: Meshah
Age: 39

Please make these courses available online.

Date:  Apr 02, 2008
User: Denise Lepage
Age: 49

The quality of business based course offerings from OAA would have to be elevated. One of the reasons I don't have my license yet, is I am so busy with the "business"of practice, writing RFP's, resourcing projects, billing etc. Trying to squeeze in that last ARE exam is the issue in my extremely busy life not business knowledge. However for someone fresh out of school in an accelerated process this might become an issue. We want to see businesses succeed overall.

Date:  Apr 02, 2008
User: Jason
Age: 34

Honestly, what are you talking about?

Date:  Apr 04, 2008
User: Michaela
Age: 39

Let's make things easier folks, not more difficult.

Date:  Apr 05, 2008
User: 1hk1
Age: 37

any help with setting up a business would be welcomed. California has the opinion that a newly licenced architect will immediately set up shop and get is over their head. So, the state brought in an Oral exam to slow the number of licenced architects. The Oral is horrible: answer 30 multi part questions in front of a three person panel of architects without be able to write anything down. The questions cover all aspects of the practice including marketing, business plan, employee moral, sd, cd, ca, liability, client relations. The exam is really tough for people who's first language is not english. In my opinion the Ontario system of graduated licences is a better solution that the california oral.

Date:  Apr 07, 2008
User: __ap
Age: 28

This would only be to an Intern Architect's benefit since many Interns practicing in larger firms have limited exposure to the true 'Business of Architecture'. Although, having completed what should be a thorough internship might give the OAA some sense of peace that their Interns won't practice unsafe Architecture.

Date:  Apr 08, 2008
User: Chintan Virani
Age: 46

I think it will benefit fresh graduates entering the professional practice. Infact, OAA admission course was very much encouraging; the experience I came to know from the lectures was similar to what I had in my former home country during my practice. ConEd will help for sure to all.

Date:  Apr 08, 2008
User: R Hip
Age: 31

Good ideas.

Date:  Apr 09, 2008
User: gejb
Age: 39

Again, con-ed guarantess expenses to someone who may not want to open their own practice. If every 'future' registered architect were to open a practice, the market would be saturated with no one to produce drawings. The CofP should be tiered to accomodate heads of offices (employers), freelancers (one-person offices), and professionals within a large organization who would not play a large role in office / employee administrative duties.

Date:  Apr 09, 2008
User: wing nut
Age: 39

I think allowing COP's sooner is good but Darwin will weed out a lot of individuals pretty quickly as they launch into opening little preactices almost fresh out of school. The ConEd compnent is critical at some point. Just because you draw a building doesn't mean you can run a business. Business' that go belly up don;t help professionals or clients. That having been said I don;t know that the OAA knows any better how to run a business but I think we can agree on some basics like labor laws and how to bill clients etc.

Date:  Apr 11, 2008
User: jlhr
Age: 27

Business classes seem like a good idea but I don't think that they should be given by the OAA necessarily - the OAA should utilize all the classes offered by Colleges and Universities and other business courses offered.

Date:  Apr 14, 2008
User: toronto_intern
Age: 37

business related hours/experience can also be gained in a recognized business course, i.e. management certificates from colleges.

Date:  Apr 15, 2008
User: darchitect
Age: 37

if you are licensed, then that should be the step. interns should not be licensed sooner to make the numbers look better.

Date:  Apr 15, 2008
User: TomK
Age: 32

If the architect can't see the value of these types of additional courses then forcing them won't ensure that they learn the material.

Date:  Apr 15, 2008
User: typern
Age: 35

If a member has the licence|experience|financial requirements|possibilities for a practice will most likely make the necessary research for it, so any professional help is welcome.

Date:  Apr 15, 2008
User: evelyn
Age: 33

Its too confusing to clients and the public of all these differentiations of Architects.

Date:  Apr 24, 2008
User: arch_intern78
Age: 29

Current experience should not be eliminated for ConEd courses. A Certificate of Practice should be more difficult to get than a licence, since it signifies a commitment to further the field of architecture (with a company of your own) and should not be reduced to a tag-on benefit of licence. Really, two years is not that long if you already have at least one year experience as an intern.

Date:  Apr 25, 2008
User: D. Watson
Age: 34

I didn't realize that owning my own practice was considered mandatory to becoming an Architect. I appreciate the OAA's concern about my professional career choices but if I want to work happily away practicing architecture on someone else's projects I should be entitled to do so.

Date:  Apr 26, 2008
User: Chris
Age: 38

The previous system had no mechanism for exposure to the non-technical side of professional life. The assumption is that, over time, a skill and knowledge base will build by osmosis. I think this is VERY shaky. In small firms, perhaps - but not in larger ones. Interns can function without any (or virtually any) involvement in firm business and management. I would strongly urge these areas of improvement to the program. Going back to the current Admissions Course - it is shocking to me that the Building Code session would be viewed as 'most helpful' - and this is among a group that theoretically possesses greater maturity. All that said, this issue seems to grow out of a push by Pro-deminity - i.e. the concern that this new system would yield more law suits proceeding from these inexperienced licensees. It is nearly impossible to 'teach' business sense or good judgement. The correct answers to technical issues and legal-contractual ones are already available - the professionals just need to know how and when to access them. In the end, the marketplace (i.e. real life) needs to sort out the architects that can survive. Based on my experience at UofT - the CULTURE of the school (and of other accredited schools in Ontario) is somewhat the source of various professional issues in that while the content of the program might be fine for CACB, the kind of person (their interests & focus etc...) is not really in-keeping with the centreline of what the ral experience of architectural practice is all about.

Date:  Apr 26, 2008
User: senior
Age: 53

Intern who are self employed & practising since 5 year shall be given certificate of Practise to widen there scope of Pracise and submit list of there projects at the end of 2 - years to review & continue practice.

Date:  Apr 28, 2008
User: rima
Age: 41

OAA should not reduce required experience time frames as a way to speed up the regstration process. This will amount to a reduction in the standard of the architectural profession, and affect all architects and the public's perception of the quality of services they receive. Only through hands-on involvement in the day-to-day running of a practice, and making difficult decisions and facing real-life situations can one gain meaningful understanding of what it means to hold C of P. The two years of current experience should be over and above what is required (preferably not less than 5) for completion of internship programme.

Date:  Apr 28, 2008
User: Jayant
Age: 32

I belive the assocation should offer the courses and resources for Architects to learn how to run their business but this shouldn't be mandatory. I think most people would use these resources regardless.

Date:  May 15, 2008
User: S.B.G.
Age: 25

I agree that business related experience is not necessary to the licensing of an architect but only important should the architect wish to open their own/ partner in a firm and should therefore be an optional and additional process.

Date:  May 15, 2008
User: Shirley Ting
Age: 32

I agree, this would assist the intern in the reality of the business of architecture as well to understand that opening an architecture business is not as easy as it may seem, as well becoming an architect is not just a title, there are responsibilities to be remembered and integrity to be upheld.

Date:  May 20, 2008
User: Lea W
Age: 39

Anyone going into business is responsible to ensure that they have enough exposure to or training in their area of business. It might be a useful service to conduct a Practice Consultation Service to ensure that new architects are familiar with all mandatory and legal practices as it relates to the architects' act, building code and insurance requirements (specifically things that relate only to architect).

Date:  May 30, 2008
User: H.H.
Age: 33

Business administration courses should be mandatory for anyone seeking a CofP. Practices are businesses, and frankly far too many architects are unfortunately very poor at running a business.

Date:  Jul 30, 2008
User: Licutus of Borg
Age: 45

That's debatable!!

Date:  Aug 22, 2008
User: elizabeth
Age: 57

I am not sure - I assume that their insurance premiums would reflect their lack of experience as well (?). If I recall correctly about 50% of "firms" are essentially single practioners with few if any employees; the smaller firms are also those which provide the poorest benefits, the lowest wages, profits and job security. In an industry with essentially flat line productivity since WWII, we should not be structuring things so that we are undermining the formation of larger firms by encouring/facilitating micro firms. It is bad for our profession, for architects, for professional development, for innovation, etc.... Maybe more focus on what it would take to make working in a big firm/org better would be good - this has to start with the schools of course.

Date:  Sep 28, 2008
User: Poet of Bithyni
Age: 33

Interns should have UNLIMITED time to complete licensure requirements. The OAA should not be so greedy,as far as money is concerned and always think of pay your dues, your time is up, reapply, etc. The process is as frustrating as it is.

Date:  Oct 06, 2008
User: joelb
Age: 34

I just got licenced after finishing school 6 years ago. I wouldn't want to wait another 2 years to have this option open to me.

Date:  Feb 12, 2009
User: Javier
Age: 39

creates two tiers of membership, will these "probationary members" be allowed a cheaper membership fee?

Date:  Mar 22, 2009
User: jimes
Age: 32

If you're going to get them licensed sooner, with less experience, that needs to be made up. As a professional association there still needs to be a guiding element that ensures a minimum level of professional responsibility, and business and practice knowledge.